Episode 101
Exploring Little Avalanches: Becky Ellis on Writing, Trauma, and Healing - 101
In this heartwarming episode of Author Express, join host Shawna Rodrigues as she sits down with Becky Ellis, a celebrated Northwest author from Portland. Discover Becky's journey growing up across various cities in California and how her complex family dynamics shaped her memoir, "Little Avalanches." Gain insights into the intriguing conversation she had with her father, a decorated WWII combat sergeant, that transformed her life's narrative. Learn about the specific challenges and emotional landscapes she navigated while writing her story. Don't miss Becky's unique strategy for structuring this dual-memoir and her tips on balancing the craft of writing with the rawness of personal experience. Perfect for fans of nonfiction and anyone fascinated by military family stories or memoir writing techniques.
Becky Ellis is a Timberwolf Pup. Her father was a WWII veteran and carried the weight of his combat experience internally, never sharing his stories, yet allowing them to influence his life deeply. Growing up, Becky could easily have broken ties with her father, but instead she gave him grace and listened when he was ready to talk. Becky's memoir, Little Avalanches, is detailed in 3 parts with her childhood, her father's daily account of WWII and how they came together through conversation decades later.
Becky is helping people start the conversations that need to be had with family members, especially those who have been in combat while also raising awareness of the great need our veterans have when they come home in dealing with the trauma they experience.
You can learn more about Becky by visiting her website, https://beckyellis.net, or following her on Instagram, @beckyellisauthor.
Get your copy of Little Avalanches here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CKPP93Z8/
A little about today's host-
Shawna Rodrigues left her award-winning career in the public sector in 2019 to consult and publish her first novel Beyond the Pear Blossoms. Her desire to connect and help others led to the launch of her podcast The Grit Show shortly thereafter. When she learned women host only 27% of podcasts, her skills and passion led to the founding of the Authentic Connections Network. She now helps mission-driven entrepreneurs better connect with their audiences by providing full-service podcast production and through a community for Entrepreneurs & Podcasters – EPAC. Podcasting is her primary focus, so she continues to support the writing community through this podcast, and her writing time is mostly focused on anthologies.
She offers a free 7 Steps to Perfect Your Podcast Title to anyone interested in launching a podcast. You can also follow her on Instagram-@ShawnaPodcasts, and learn more about the network and community at https://linktr.ee/37by27.
Be sure to follow or subscribe to Author Express wherever you listen to podcasts and to follow us on Instagram @AuthorExpressPodcast
Learn more about our hosts, the guests we've had, and their books -
Transcript
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Shawna Rodrigues [:Welcome to Author Express. Thanks for checking us out. This is the podcast where you give us 15 minutes of your time and we give you a chance to hear the voice behind the pages and get to know your new favorite author in a new light. I'm Shawna Rodriguez, one of your hosts, a fellow author, host of The Grit Show and Authenticity Amplified Podcast, and the founder of Authentic Connections Podcast Network, which makes this podcast possible. Let me tell you a little about today's guest. Becky Ellis is a Timber Wolf pup, the daughter of a highly decorated World War 2 combat sergeant. She's a veteran of a war fought at home. She earned a BA in English literature at UC Berkeley and has over 20 years of experience in the publishing industry.
Shawna Rodrigues [:She teaches writing in Portland, Oregon where she lives, plays, and has raised 3 daughters. Little Avalanches is her debut memoir, which recently won the 2024 Rubbery Book Award for nonfiction. I'm excited because not only is she a Northwest author, she's also from Portland where I used to live, and I'm looking forward to having more of a conversation with her. Thank you for being here today, Becky.
Becky Ellis [:Oh, thank you so much, Shawna. I'm thrilled to be here.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. So the first question we always ask is to tell us something interesting about where you are from.
Becky Ellis [:So I think the interesting thing about where I'm from is that I am from a state, not a city. I lived in about 10 different cities in California before middle school. Wow. So I think that's probably something interesting about where I'm from. I don't know if there's anything particularly interesting about any of or there's probably a lot interesting about all of the places, but from San Francisco to Modesto to San Diego, Rancho Mirage, Redlands, Arinda, to name a few, kinda all over the state.
Shawna Rodrigues [:And was all of that moving part of being a military family, or was that just part of your family?
Becky Ellis [:It was part of my family. It was my parents divorced, separated when I was about 2 and divorced. And it was my mom trying to get away from my dad and my dad trying to find out where he wanted to be. That's kinda what that was about.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. And a lot of movement. And interesting that California was such a big state that it was all of the same state, even though those are long distances that you moved.
Becky Ellis [:Yes. They are.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Did you have a lot of extended family in California that you moved close to, or were you guys kind of independent with your parents?
Becky Ellis [:Yeah. Just independent with our parents. We didn't really have I had grandparents. My father's parents lived in Modesto, California. Mhmm. So they were the only ones of extended family that lived there, and I love my grandpa and grandma. They were awesome.
Shawna Rodrigues [:And did you have a lot of siblings?
Becky Ellis [:My father had 8 children, and he had 4 wives. So I have one full brother and a bunch of half siblings, but I'm mostly closest with my full brother and my half sister who's right after me.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Wow. That's quite a collection. Yes. And is your full brother is he older or younger than you?
Becky Ellis [:He's a year older.
Shawna Rodrigues [:A year older. And how would he describe you growing up?
Becky Ellis [:Oh, boy. He'd probably describe me as irritating and persistent, and, also, his best friend, hopefully. Hopefully. I think he would.
Shawna Rodrigues [:All of the above.
Becky Ellis [:Yeah. He was my best friend. I mean, he and I really went through everything together. He was the one who we flew every other weekend to see my father together, and he knows my story better than anybody else because he experienced it too because he was right beside me the whole time.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Oh, that's very interesting. Yeah. So we're gonna talk a little more about that.
Becky Ellis [:Yeah. Maybe that's why irritated him as this pesky little sister.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yeah. Because you had each other. Yep. And little sisters are supposed to be annoying. I think it comes with the territory. So tell us, how would you describe, in a sentence or 2, your memoir?
Becky Ellis [:Yes. Which is very difficult to do, but I think it is a story about finding a place of compassion and love between my father and I after we both went through a brutal experience, him in combat and me in childhood.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Oh.
Becky Ellis [:Yeah. And it's a story about a conversation that we had near the end of his life that kinda changed everything.
Shawna Rodrigues [:That is really intense. Yeah. Did you know that you're going to write this book before you had that conversation with him? Is this a book that was long time in the making, or did it click kind of after that conversation took place?
Becky Ellis [:There was a period of time where I knew I wanted to write a story about what it was like to be raised by a combat sergeant because I wanted to know what other people's experience was, and there's really nothing written about it. And so I thought the world needs a story that kind of breaks that silence and talks about what it's like to be in a military family, a a child of someone who's been through combat. And then shortly after that, my father started telling me his story, and I that's when I knew it had to be both. Because whenever I would tell people about my childhood, which wasn't often, it was inconceivable to them. It didn't make sense. So I felt like my story was inconceivable without my father's, and his story felt incomplete without mine.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Mhmm.
Becky Ellis [:So the book shares both of our stories, which is really unusual for a memoir.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes.
Becky Ellis [:Memoir is usually a slice of one life, and this story is really 2 slices of 2 lives.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. And the way they kind of came together and that alchemy of that.
Becky Ellis [:Right. Right. At the end of his life.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. Do you think that your book would have been different if you waited even longer to write it, or do you feel like it steeped and that's what it would have been regardless of when you'd written it?
Becky Ellis [:I don't think it would be different if I waited longer. No. He started the conversation with me in 2014, and so it's been about 10 years, and I feel like nothing much happened after he passed away 3 years ago. So I don't feel like there's any new information Mhmm. Or any new revelations that I've had that I would include in the book. There's a lot more I could have included, but, you know, you can only include so much of life or so much of story in a story in one story.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. That makes perfect sense. I'm sure there is so much there. Were you really surprised when he opened that conversation to you? Because when I think of the people I know that have endured those wars and been through that and had those experiences, that's a challenging thing for them to open up about. And a lot of people I know have gone to the grave without sharing those stories. So were you surprised when that happened?
Becky Ellis [:I was very surprised, and it happened by my father coming to my home in Portland and asking if we had any issues to clear up. And as you might imagine, just the number of children he fathered and wives he had, we had a lot of issues. And I think he expected me to say, look around, dad. Everything's great. He had a great home and great kids, great vacations and cars and, you know, the whole thing. And I said, I wanna know about the war. And I think he was surprised by that. And that persistent pesky part of me that my brother would call me was there in the kitchen with my dad when he asked me, and I kept pressing.
Becky Ellis [:I wanted to know. I wanted to know because he was 89 at the time, and I thought, this is my chance. I've wanted to know my whole life.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yeah.
Becky Ellis [:And now he's asking me if I have issues. This is my issue. I made it my issue, And he finally started talking about it. He dove straight in deep. It was little by little, he started spooling it out, and our conversation lasted, you know, really till the end of his life, which was 7 more years of life. But our conversation was intense that week and then intense for probably about a year.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Well, it's impressive that you had the awareness that that was the root of it, that that's where everything else came from, that instead of saying, like, yes. Wife number 3, why did you choose her, and why did you move here? Like, and why didn't you show up for this event in my life? That instead of you, like, doing all of those pieces that instead you went right to the root. Like, that's really impressive that you had that awareness.
Becky Ellis [:Well, I always had this awareness that I really had a longing to be close to my father and to understand him more deeply. And I knew that he had been in the war. Because when I was young, he would fire out bits and pieces of story and then stop really abruptly. And so I knew he had endured a lot even though he wouldn't talk about it, and I longed to understand him and to be close to him. I think all women and little girls long to be close to their fathers and to have that love connection. And this was a block, and I knew that. That's amazing. So I think it was that deep longing for that love and compassion is what really drove me.
Shawna Rodrigues [:And did he know that you were writing the book and that you were going to write the book?
Becky Ellis [:He did. And at first, he was really resistant, because he has war trauma and war paranoia, doesn't talk about it, doesn't want anybody to know. But then after we really got into it, maybe 2, 3 years in, he felt really passionate that the story was really important, that people really understand what really happens in war.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Oh, that's so beautiful.
Becky Ellis [:Yeah.
Shawna Rodrigues [:That is very beautiful. I'm so glad that it got to that point. That's amazing.
Becky Ellis [:Yeah. Thanks.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. And so tell us about your writing process. Like, was this like a labor of love, or is this really hard to find the words to put this together?
Becky Ellis [:It was both. I think it was a labor of love, and it was really hard. It was deeply emotional, like most memoir is. It required a lot of psychological excavating and a lot of deep thought. And it really honestly, writing it deep into the conversation with my father. Because as I was in the writing process, I was still talking to him about his story and my story, and it pushed me. The writing kind of pushed the conversation, and then the conversation pushed the writing. So it was this back and forth with the writing and the conversation, which I really value and appreciate.
Becky Ellis [:But the hardest part of writing the book, I know that's often a question, was the structure of it. Structuring the story was really tough, and that's probably what took me the longest time. Once I got the structure, it really came together, but it was structured differently several times.
Shawna Rodrigues [:I can imagine. It's trying to figure out what took the forefront, what took the back seat, and how they kind of fold us together in a way that let it unfold for the reader in a way that connected them to all those pieces in the right way. So what made it finally click for you?
Becky Ellis [:Well, I ultimately discovered that I wanted the reader to experience the story the way I experienced it. So I wanted them to understand my childhood. And a real challenge was my father is such a big figure in life and on the page that the little girl part of the story kept getting lost. So I wanted the reader to experience it the way I did, experience my childhood, and then hear the more story. Like, experience my childhood the way I did with just understanding bits and pieces, and then hear the war story and be flooded with empathy the way I was when I finally heard my dad's story. So that's what created that change. And at one time, it was all braided together, this childhood, his war story, and then our conversation at the end of his life, which is often readers' favorite part of the story. And being braided together, the countervailing forces weren't strong enough.
Becky Ellis [:But separating it out, the first part is little Becky's childhood, and that is really tense. And then there are, like, 2 lines of transition, and it goes into part 2, which is you go 40 years or 50 years backwards, and you're on the battlefield. And then that's really intense too, even though you know my father survives, being in the trenches with him is an experience that even people who've read World War 2, like history buffs, say was a very intense experience. It's written in journal format from his point of view.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Oh.
Becky Ellis [:And then you're launched 70 years into the future with another two lines of transition and are at the airport with me picking up my 89 year old dad. So it breaks all kind of structure rules. You know, I really wanted to follow the structure rules of the novel. And I had done that with the character arcs and all of that, but it just kinda wasn't working. And then I just broke it all apart and just found a new way to do it.
Shawna Rodrigues [:That's so beautiful. I love that. And I love that because I think when I've done writing too, that trying to find a way to tell a story in a way that has impact and trying to do it the way other people have done it and reading what other people do is you try to figure out what you're doing. You're like, this isn't it. This isn't it. So I was so excited you found the way to do it in a way that you feel connects and gives the power to each of the pieces. That's so exciting. Thank you for sharing that.
Becky Ellis [:Yeah. Of course. I really studied the craft and craft of structure and craft of story. And then I realized, I think we really need to do that as writers so we understand the basics and fundamentals. And then writing is art. So if it's not working, break it apart.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Know why you're breaking the rules and then break the rules and put it together in the way that it has the power for what you need to tell. Exactly. That is so exciting. I love it. And we seem more excited to read your book because then it has, like, you're learning something about the craft as well as getting to experience it in that way, which makes it a little more exciting. That's so fun.
Becky Ellis [:Yeah. Yeah. Yes. For a totally different structure, it's a great story for that, for sure.
Shawna Rodrigues [:And it's an important story. I love that. I love because I think so many people have that experience of life with a veteran and somebody who's experienced PTSD or has that and don't always know how to separate those pieces, especially if that individual didn't know how to separate those pieces. And so to be able to separate that out and to have that experience because you separated it out, I think it's even more powerful in portraying what people have experienced, right, so that you're honoring all of those. So I love it.
Becky Ellis [:And trauma of any kind, honestly. Yes. Yeah. We're impacted by each other's trauma, people we're in relational closeness with.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Yes. No. That's amazing. Oh, I'm so glad you came and shared this with us today. Thank you so much. What is the best place for people to find you and be able to connect with you and follow along with you and your journey with us and your future endeavors?
Becky Ellis [:My website, which is beckyellis.net, has all the links to everywhere people can find me. So that's probably the best spot.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Perfect. And it's becky with a y and Ellis with an I, and it'll be in the show notes. It'll be easy to find. And then what is a book or story that's inspired you the most?
Becky Ellis [:There's so many, which I know all writers say. But in following with this structure idea that we've been talking about, I will say Life After Life by Kate Atkinson.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Oh.
Becky Ellis [:Because she also breaks structure. Reading that book taught me to trust the reader.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Oh.
Becky Ellis [:And that the reader will follow you if you set up a pattern. And so I love that story for its structure.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Oh, beautiful. I love that. I love that. I love when we get, like, good morsels of what to go discover next as well. Thank you so much for being here and sharing with us today, Becky.
Becky Ellis [:Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Shawna Rodrigues [:Thank you for joining us. I hope you take a second to give a stars or a review on your favorite podcasting platform. It really makes a difference in folks being able to find us. We'll be here again next Wednesday. Follow us on Instagram at author express podcast to see who's coming up next. And don't forget, keep it express to keep it interesting.
