Narcissistic Abuse Memoir from the Victim's Perspective with Author Dana S. Diaz

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Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:00:00

Welcome to Author Express. Thanks for joining us today. I'm Shawna Rodrigues, one of your hosts and the founder of Authentic Connections Podcast Network, which makes this podcast possible. This podcast is where you discover the voice behind the pages of your next favorite book, and I'm excited about the author we have for you today.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:00:22

Dana S. Diaz is a wife, mother, and author of the best-selling book, Gasping for Air: The Stranglehold of Narcissistic Abuse. Dana has had lifelong experience with narcissistic abuse beginning in her childhood. Her education in journalism and psychology at DePaul University in Chicago gave her the ability to accurately verbalize and express how narcissistic abuse creates confusion and conflict within victims so that she can help other victims know that they are not alone and better understand their own circumstances. Today, Dana is a proud voice for fellow victims who are unable, afraid, or ashamed to share their experiences. She strives to create awareness and understanding to ensure victims are given the support they need to first understand their situation and then begin the healing process. Her first book, chronicling her own abusive marriage that lasted nearly three decades, started as a journal that she hid under the couch cushion in the basement. This conversation is a little different than what we normally do on Author Express, but I definitely connected with Dana and really excited to share this book with you guys and to have this conversation. Dana currently lives with her husband in Illinois and is in the process of publishing the prequel and sequel to Gasping for Air. Yes, I am so excited that you're here for this conversation because I feel like books are such a way to communicate with folks, and I think this is a really important thing to be communicating about. So, thank you for being here.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:01:46

Well, thank you so much for having me.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:01:48

Yes. So, we start all of our interviews the same, which is, it feels like a strange shift from you know, this heavy start to our conversation, but let's start with, tell us the most interesting thing about where you are from, Dana.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:02:00

Well, I'm originally from Chicago, but I have not lived in Chicago for probably like 30 years now, 20, 30 years. But I'm in a small farm town. But a nearby small town actually is the birthplace and I believe the residence until the person passed of the person who discovered the planet, Pluto. That's what I've been told. I couldn't tell you their name or anything about them, but I thought that was pretty cool because I'm like, somebody out here did something literally life changing. It's world stuff. It's pretty cool.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:02:36

And in a neighboring town, even you've learned about that in,

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:02:39

And in a neighboring town, and I will say this about living out in the boonies, I mean, we have literally like gravel roads. There are cornfields all around us, but the most beautiful thing out here is the night sky. It's something I've loved ever since I moved out here. It is dead quiet, but it is pitch black. So, when you look up at the night, I mean, you can see it's no wonder this person discovered a whole planet because you can see the entire universe. It's really cool.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:03:06

That is amazing. So, I grew up in a very small town, and I remember loving to look at the stars. And I went on a trip to Mexico with a group over spring break. It was called Getaway Giveaway when I was in junior high and high school, and that was for me like the sky there because there was no light pollution, and it was so amazing. And I needed glasses at the time. I didn't have glasses yet, and I could see the sky on a whole different level. And it's so amazing to go to places and can really see the stars.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:03:34

Yeah, it really is. For me, at least, it speaks to my soul. It's just something that grounds you and makes you kind of put everything in perspective to realize you're this tiny little minute thing in this world. But speaking of writing and communicating, we are minute and tiny in the scheme of the universe, but we absolutely can make a difference.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:03:57

Yes, that is beautiful. And you've been there for 30 years now. And so,

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:04:03

Even before that, but yeah. Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:04:06

Yes. Yes. Yes. So, one of our questions that we always ask is to get to know you a little bit. So, tell me the last thing that made you laugh. I love that we're doing all this stuff in total contrast as we get into your book and more heavier conversations, but what's the last thing that made you laugh?

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:04:21

Okay, the truth? This morning, you know, I live in this world of constantly talking of narcissistic abuse and writing about narcissistic abuse. So, my outlet is just while I was eating breakfast this morning, I scroll through social media. I like looking at reels, and it was a dog. It was a great Pyrenees. They're beautiful, large, they're gorgeous dogs. But the woman was howling to make the dog howl, and she would howl, and the dog was (dog howling sound), but then she kept doing it three or four times, and by the end, the dog just looked at her and went (dog howling sound), and walked away. And I don't know why. That just, it's one of those things you'd have to see, but it doesn't take much. I'm isolated and obviously very sheltered at this point. So, it doesn't take a whole lot. That is the last thing I laughed at today.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:05:16

That's great, because it's been years, but I remember I feel like it was way back when I was like in high school, we used to say, location joke, you had to be there. But that totally reminds me of saying location joke.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:05:26

You just had to be there. I mean, to validate my sense of humor, my husband was sitting next to me and I played it for him and he laughed. Although he would have laughed just to be courteous and make me feel less alone. He has that certain laugh. But, anyway, that's what I thought was funny.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:05:42

Yes, I love doing that. That is one of the great things about those little short videos that are comical. There was one about, we have an orange cat that my fiancé adores, and there was a video that he said there is actually a whole channel or something about dumb orange cats or something about orange cats. But there's a video that kept showing this poor orange cat that there were two other cats that were gray and they kept batting the ball and doing cool things, and that ball would like, hit the orange cat in the head and he would just drop his head.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:06:10

I have actually seen that. It is funny. I have seen this. I don't know why I love watching animals, but yes, I have literally seen it. The one, I don't know if it was the same video. The two other cats were kind of volleying like a little volleyball, and when it got to the orange cat, it just kind of bonk ed him and he slowly, it was like slow motion. He like, rolled backwards. I just felt so bad for him.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:06:37

How do they video those moments? Do they just constantly, like, videotape these cats and magically find these or is that cat just have that much stuff happen to it?

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:06:45

I think the cat is just really easy going and just not really into activity. He just kind of is there and things happen to him that we unfortunately find humorous.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:06:58

It’s like stuck to the cat's face. I feel like, you know, everyone's going to be like going, I got to find this cat. What is this cat?

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:07:05

I know, never mind the book. They're going to be on the reels on Facebook and TikTok and everything and howling like a dog like I was just a minute ago. Why not?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:07:14

Yes, but it’s fun when you can have these little hits of humor. You don't have to watch entire episodes of TV shows. You can just get little hits of humor off of these things.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:07:22

Exactly.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:07:23

Yes. I like it, I like it. I like that we can have that type of a conversation. Yes. But let's chat more about your book because I think that your book is a very important topic and I love that you share with us the process that you started this book when you were still in the thick of things.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:07:41

Oh, yeah. Well, that's part of narcissistic abuse. Everybody's heard the term gaslighting and just like narcissism, it's thrown around so loosely. But when you are seriously being gaslighted, so, what's happening is the narcissist needs to create your reality for you. So, even though you hear something they're going to say, I never said that. You're crazy. You're delusional. If you say, but this happened, trying to prove a point or prove them wrong. No, it didn't. You're remembering it wrong. They literally make you doubt your entire reality or your perception. So, here I was, 20 some years into it. Now, you do have to keep in mind, I came out of an abusive childhood in which my stepfather abused me, and my mother was actually the one who gaslit me about the abuse. I was just supposed to basically be quiet and pretend it wasn't happening and just stop causing problems by speaking up about it. So, anyway, 20 some years into this former marriage of mine, I try to be self-aware. We had a son. And I'm thinking, if everything I say and do is negated, I need to know. If I really am delusional, I wanted to know because I need to know to be a good mother. I need to know for myself if I really need some help. I want to know what's going on. And unfortunately, I didn't really have anybody. A typical narcissist thing is they isolate you. So, you know, how did I end up in the boonies? Well, I grew up in Chicago, and now I'm 90 miles southwest of Chicago in the middle of nowhere. Well, it's because my ex moved us out here. It was a great idea, and he would not be happy unless we lived in the country, so to speak. But then he didn't like any of my friends. He didn't like my family. He made it very difficult for me to talk on the phone. I wasn't allowed to talk on the phone in the house. He didn't like me getting text messages because then it meant I was screwing somebody. So, it was just easier to keep the peace, especially after my son was born, to just be like, fine, I just literally will have no life. I will go to work and come home. And the end. That's it. Didn't talk to anybody, didn't see anybody. Very isolated. So, back to all this gaslighting, I decided, okay, because I didn't have a reference, I didn't have anyone to go to, to say, is he right? Is he wrong? Like, what do you think? All I had was me. I wasn't going to ask my son. He's a kid. So, I took, this is terrible too. I couldn't be caught with a journal or a notebook of any kind. So, I took one of my son's old notebooks. Anybody who has kids knows that at the end of the school year, you get back all these notebooks that you didn't have to buy in the first place even though they said they needed ten, five rule notebooks, whatever it was. Scribbled all over the front of it with marker. Half the pages were scribbled with stuff that wasn't schoolwork, but tore those pages out and whatever blank pages were in there. I started recording the date, the time, what was said, what happened, just a very brief couple of sentences just so I could remember, so that if it ever came up again, I could go back and say, okay. You know, immediately after it happened, I wrote it down so that it wasn't a memory issue. So, I just wanted to know for me. And I started noticing over time, okay, he's definitely screwing with my head. He is definitely gaslighting me, trying to make me think things that weren't true so that I would question myself and I would doubt reality and basically put all my trust in him, which I just couldn't do because I knew there was something very wrong going on all these years. So, yeah, I hid that under the basement cushion and then I got very ill.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:11:36

Was diagnosed at the end of 2018 with a few different things. One of the main issues was a rare lung disease called upper airway resistance syndrome that the neurologist said is like having COPD and fibromyalgia all at the same time. But it's very common in victims of abuse. It's caused by a high amount, I had astronomically high levels of cortisol running through my body because of the fear that I was living in for so long. Mayo Clinic actually ran the first tests and thought they compromised the sample because the levels were so ridiculously high. They're like, this can't be. So, they retested to find out that, no, my levels were actually that high. So, that's why you'll hear like, the scratchiness in my voice. Never smoked a cigarette in my life, never did anything to influence my lungs in any way. This is all because of abuse.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:12:29

The way that it impacts your health is amazing.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:12:32

It was almost terminal. I mean, it was at the point where towards the end of 2019, I had dropped down to 93 very skeletal pounds for no reason. I had about two dozen autoimmune symptoms. I would flare up. It was awful. But it was to the point where I don't know how to describe it. But to give you an idea, like my hands, I could not even tear toilet paper off the roll in the bathroom. And that doesn't take much. It's so frustrating to be in your early forties and not even able to do your basic, you know,

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:13:09

self-care. Yeah.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:13:09

And basic needs. It's very frustrating. So, I went back to the doctor and that's when they'd ran some more tests and found that all of my organs, he said, were at minimal survival rates. He said my body was doing everything just to breathe so that my heart would keep beating. But even my heartbeat was so low. He said you're barely alive. Your body is shutting down, so you need to make a change. So, in early 2020, I consulted with an attorney for the 6th time in my marriage.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:13:40

But this time I was like, I have to choose myself. I can't do this. I cannot do this anymore. I'm not going to fight over TVs and couches and money. I don't care what he takes. I just want my kid and I want out. I just want to be done. Well, that was great. She gave me homework, and a week later, we ended up in the shelter in place. COVID hit so, I was stuck in the house with him, which was a whole other yeah, it was like the universe's irony in my life.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:14:08

How old was your child at this time?

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:14:10

He was 16 at that time. But that's how the book actually came to be. Because during that time, I had a regular job during that time. And so that's when I took my notebook out. And, I mean, even as I was looking through it, I had even forgotten, it's amazing how they can brainwash you. But even I had forgotten some of the things that had happened and had been said. And I'm reading them, like, how am I still with this man? And this was just a short time in the scheme of the 25 years we were together that I thought, oh, my gosh. I mean, if I was anyone else, if this was somebody else coming to me, I just said, girl, you need to get out of there. Like, what are you doing? But I thought I was doing the noble thing, staying for my kid. But the thing is, because I was so isolated, I had no idea that I didn't know what a narcissist was, even. I didn't know this was like, a thing that was happening to other women. So, I started elaborating on my stories, typing them out in the computer, and that's actually what ended up becoming the book, because when I got out of that marriage, which I did, once the courts reopened, I went to another attorney who said he could have me divorced in three weeks. And it was done and over and I was out. But I just thought it was so important.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:15:34

That must have taken so much.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:15:42

It was. It was something. It was a long year that year. It was a long 25 years. But the thing is, I just thought it was so important that if I thought I was isolated and alone, which I was, I thought, nobody else is going through this. I thought even if somebody just reads it, to know that it's not just them, somebody else has been through it. But I got out, and I got out safely. I mean, I know I was very lucky the way it all happened for me, but unfortunately, like, my husband and I watch a lot of these shows, like 48 Hours and stuff, and even he will look at some of these stories in the first five minutes and say, wow, that sounds a lot like your ex. Or wow, your ex has said those exact words to you. And we see, like, there's a lot of these narcissistic qualities or narcissistic people out there, and not every victim makes it out alive. And I almost didn't either. My ex actually got most violent after the divorce. The book does go through that. Yeah. So, there was a lot there, but I just tell people I'm here. I'm standing firm with my truth and letting people know there's another side. If you can get out safely, I'm here to tell you, life is beautiful. I'm healthy. I've gained my weight back. I don't even know, honestly, the last time I've used my oxygen machine that I used to have to use every day. So, I mean, things are good when you can get yourself out of a toxic situation and put yourself in what I call normal life, which is that not every day has hostility and tension and threats and all these awful things. I mean, there are people out there that will help you along and help you heal and put you in a safe place so that you can live the life you deserve. Because nobody should have to live that way.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:17:29

Yes, and the isolation piece is such a big part of that formula. And so, it's really amazing that you being on podcasts, you having your book, you having all these ways to connect and get this message to folks that there is a way and there are other voices out there. I'm putting words in your mouth a little bit, but is that partly what motivated you to write the book, then, was to connect with others who,

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:17:52

yeah, I think so. Because I'm not going to lie, it was hard coming out of that situation, especially because I had lost so much family and so many people, friends. Because these narcissists like to create a narrative about you. They isolate you, but then they're out in the world telling people that you are crazy and you're a liar and you're a thief and you're a cheater and all these things so that people will not like you. And my ex actually admitted it to me. He told me.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:18:22

Really?

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:18:23

Oh, yes. He told me one night that he specifically told his mother and sister some nasty, nasty things about me to make sure that they would hate me. He has told friends, family, people at our son's school, teachers and coaches, people at my church, even my priest. I mean, he has no boundaries and most of them don't. They just want to make sure that you are alone. And I'm very, very, very blessed that I have my grandma and my Godmother. I have a cousin who's like a brother to me and his wife, and I have a couple of other cousins as well that I'm thinking of that just they have not abandoned me, whereas all other family pretty much has and they keep me standing. And I have a couple, very few, but a couple of close friends because I have a hard time, given everything I've been through, trusting people. I mean, when my own mother rejected me in my childhood, which that's going to be, what I discussed in the prequel, is my childhood. It's hard to go out into the world trusting what people say, because the people that say they love you are the same people that have hurt you so deeply and put marks on your body and cut you down to nothing inside. So, I have a hard time connecting. But it's been amazing connecting to other victims because I've heard some horrific stories from other victims that they have felt safe sharing with me. And I appreciate that they know that I'm a safe person to talk to and that I could be there for them. But yeah, it definitely makes me feel like all that wasn't for nothing, to be able to be there for other people. And I joke with my priest, I said, God gave me a big mouth, so I'm using it for good now. I'm going to speak out to anyone who will listen because it's a really important topic. You know, since this book has been released, the thing that has affected me the most is that I've had two people, two completely different people from my past and I'm talking like I haven't seen them in 30, 35 years either one of them. They have found me and contacted me and both have said and this isn't even about my ex, this is about my childhood and the abuse that happened there. One of them in particular said, oh, I always thought I was going to see you on the news and maybe your mom too, found dead in a ditch somewhere. And it's very sad to me that people could see it and know that it was probably happening or know for a fact it was happening, but nobody stepped in and did anything about it. And even the authorities in my childhood and even in my former marriage, when the authorities were called in after some life-threatening things happened to me, nobody was ever charged, nobody was taken to jail, all they had to do was say it wasn't them, they didn't do it, and that I was lying and that was it. And so, it worries me that our justice system is failing a lot of people and a lot of people are ending up dead or like me, ill for the rest of their life or whatever their situation or they feel stuck because they have nobody to believe them. So, I just want to create the awareness so that people know what it looks like from both sides of it and know what to look for and hopefully take action if they see somebody that they even think. It's better to err on the side of caution if you think something's happening to somebody.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:21:57

Well, and I think that it's an important part of the message too, that you had to try. You went to the lawyer six times and had to go to a different lawyer for that 7th time that you have to keep trying. And the fact that it does affect your health, I think, and not enough people connect your health to what's happening to you in your world, to your mind.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:22:17

Your mind and body are absolutely connected.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:22:21

Yeah, those are important things. Yes. And that you've written this book, and with doing this, was that a cathartic experience for you to actually write this book down or a really challenging experience to be reliving it?

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:22:34

It was challenging and cathartic altogether. Honestly, it took me three and a half years. I had a very patient publisher that I was working with. She's phenomenal, by the way, Alexa Nazaro. I just have to say that out loud because she's been phenomenal. Because at one point I took about six months, maybe even. I just couldn't because where I had to go, the questions that she would ask me when reading some of the content, she would say, well, readers are going to wonder this, or you just barely touched upon that. You really need to go down into that if you're comfortable. And I was just like, if I'm doing this, I'm going for it. I'm going to take it all the way. I didn't want to put out, like, a powder puff piece. I mean, it is a triggering book, I should say. I have even had a couple of people say they couldn't finish it or they had to skip parts because it was too triggering. It is raw. It was emotional for me. Honestly, there were times that I was just crying as I was typing, or I had to walk away. Sometimes I needed to go get a glass of wine and just calm down for an hour or come back the next day because I just couldn't go to some of those places. But in the same way, it was cathartic because all the questions that the publisher was asking were questions that a therapist, ironically, would probably ask, like, well, did you feel shocked there? Or were you surprised when that happened? Because I'm not really sure what the sense was, because she wanted to make sure everything kind of would make sense for the reader the way I wanted it. Because I wanted to be very authentic and really delve into really sticking your hands in the mud of this stuff. And so having to answer her questions, I mean, there was a lot of deep thought and things that even I hadn't thought about. So, I gained a lot of perspective. I learned a lot about myself. I learned a lot about him, my ex, surprisingly. And I psychoanalyze everybody and everything. It's just part of my nature. So, it was really interesting to kind of, like, even as I was writing, be like, oh, my gosh, I never saw this that way. Because when I write it's like I'm talking, I just go with it. I don't monitor myself. I don't worry about grammar. I can go back for grammar and punctuation, but just free writing. So many things were happening, so many. So, I was traumatized again over and over and over, especially being a writer, and any author out there understands. Like, by the time you've published a book, I remember saying, like, I never want to read the damn thing again.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:25:29

Yes, you were in it. You were in it and deep in it for a long time.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:25:31

When you’re editing the content and the copy, you have read and reread and rewritten. But now I still go back to it in a loving way. Like, that's a piece of my soul, literally, this book, I'm getting chills just even saying that, because I put myself out there. I put thoughts in there that I should be ashamed to have thought. I put feelings in there that I shouldn't have felt. There's a lot, but I think that being truthful and honest about things that aren't polite to feel and think is the only way to really allow other people to relate to that. Because none of us are perfect and we don't all have perfect ideas and thoughts, and we want to, and we may not act on them, but we think them. I mean, we think, yeah, I want that bastard to die when he's driving out the driveway in a motorcycle. And I just said what it was. Because when you're in that situation and you're desperate, you just, you know,

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:26:28

you feel so trapped. And that's how you show how trapped you feel in that situation. There's no other way out. And you can't see any way out. So, you, to the point where you think the unthinkable because you feel so trapped. There’s no other way out. Yes. That's so beautiful. You've shared so much with us today. I really appreciate you being so candid with us. And I love that you have this book that we get to share with our audience and share with people that are listening today so that they can feel connected to it. That's incredible.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:26:56

Thank you.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:26:57

I love this. And so, tell us about, what is a book or story that has been influential and that has really touched you the most or connected with you the most in your life?

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:27:08

I have a lot. You know, we all read so many books, but I recently reread an oldie I'd like to say a goodie, but it's awful. A Child Called “It”. It came out in the early 90s, and I recently reread it, and that one's just tough. It's just tough. But for me, it resonated with me because I was that kid. I was the one kid. I had siblings. It was just me, though. I was the one that was scapegoated and treated differently and abused. Everybody else was treated fine, and it was the same situation. One parent was abusive and the other parent turned their head to it. So, it just really struck me. But that is a triggering book, too. There were parts that I had a hard time, that I couldn't keep going. I had to stop a few times. But yeah, if anyone's interested in a good read about abuse, that sounds so awful. But it is another very raw, very emotional book. But it really gives you an idea of what abuse looks like from inside and from outside, because people don't always see it and some people do and they don't do anything about it. And that's the saddest part.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:28:25

Yes. And I think that being able to have that lens into other people and places and lives, is one of the beautiful things about books. And so, I think it's great to have if you're in a place you can have that depth, that it's great to have resources that have that depth. So, thank you for giving us resources that have that. So, thank you so much. And people are going to want to connect with you. So, we'll have stuff in the show notes, but what is the best place or way to be able to connect with you?

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:28:53

Facebook and Instagram are where most people find me. I also have a website, danasdiaz.com, you can email me from there. You can click on a link to buy the book from there. I have a blog. There are all kinds of stuff, so however anybody reaches out, I do personally respond to everything and I try to be timely, but I absolutely want people to know they're not alone and they're not crazy. I'm here. I try to respond to everybody. So, if you ever need anything or just want to say hi, just reach out.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:29:24

That's fabulous. And this was well worth the conversation. This will be our longest episode of the Author Express, but it was absolutely worth it. You had a lot to share and I think people are going to find it very valuable. So, thank you so much for being here with us today and for sharing your book and your story. They're both very valuable.

Dana S. Diaz [: 00:29:38

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:29:42

Thanks for joining us. I hope you take a second to give us a review or a couple of stars on your favorite podcasting platform and we'll be here again next Wednesday. Follow us on Instagram. @AuthorExpresspodcast to see who's coming up next. Don't forget, keep it express but keep it interesting.